In 2007, MAKE projects editor Paul Spinrad sent me a link to a YouTube video of a wind-powered cart, made by a Floridian named Jack Goodman, that seemed to be able travel directly downwind faster than the wind.How could a wind-powered cart outrun a tailwind, we wondered? Wind driven vehicle systems travel faster than the wind along its direction. The difference with this vehicle is that it can exceed windspeed DIRECTLY downwind rather than having to tack. I can imagine some configurations, but I don't get how a system could be set up to push forward with a tailwind (when the cart is moving slower than the wind) and push forward with a . This apparent wind is what powers the . The yacht achieved a dead downwind speed of about 2.8 times the speed of the wind. For downwind faster than the wind you need CASE C, which spins opposite with wheels on the ground, than it would when held in air, off the ground. This is in part of the wind powered vehicle to achieve going downwind faster than the wind. Its pretty clear just by looking at the diagram itself that the thing will never have a downwind component faster than the wind. Can we go downwind faster than the wind? | Page 4 | Naked ... When the average person hears that it is possible to have a wheeled cart with its wheels spinning a propeller, and the wind on the propeller providing the power to drive the vehicle, it sounds like a Rube Goldberg idea. Running Faster than the Wind - Sail Magazine Nevertheless, isn't this idea fundamentally impossible, regardless of any IF it just is parked downwind. The video was well made and the results were pretty clear cut, the vehicle could move downwind faster than the wind. Dead Downwind Faster Than the Wind. out on wind driven vehicle; a large number of academic publications have been presented. Start new topic. Now for my diagram of the DWFTTW car (but I will start with it going INTO the wind): In this case, I . On July 2, 2010, Blackbird set the world's first certified record for going directly downwind, faster than the wind, using only power from the available wind during its run on El Mirage Dry Lake. The prop is actually producing thrust as per veritasium, not acting like a sail, it's actually pushing against the wind. June 6, 2012 This site is about the exploits of the Blackbird land-yacht, originally built by Rick Cavallaro and John Borton to demonstrate that A wind powered land vehicle can go directly downwind faster than the wind. It s one of the great ironies of sailing. 30 . Introduction By Mark Frauenfelder. Derek Muller recently considered a theoretical problem of being able to use the wind for propulsion, straight downwind, FASTER than the wind. The yacht achieved a dead downwind speed of about 2.8 times the speed of the wind. I thought that I understood it because boats can sail faster than the wind. The design is a ground vehicle that exceeds the speed of the wind when it is powered by steady-state wind. Sailing Directly Upwind = Sailing Downwind Faster than the ... This is when the wind is directly off the side of the boat, and you are sailing 90 degrees to the wind. High-performance sailing - Wikipedia If you actively fly the kite across the wind window, it's relative speed is much higher than the wind, so speedy figure 8s can keep the kite airborne & theoretically pull you faster than the wind directly down wind. You can sail directly downwind faster than the wind speed itself, as long as there is true wind. Physics peeps: Veritasium experiment going faster than the ... "Downwind Faster than the Wind: Sailing Explained by Newtonian Physics and Galilean Relativity" is an exciting - and controversial - book by Nicholas Landell-Mills that promises to shake up the scientific community. The man, fast-talking inventor Rick Cavallaro, says his craft -- Blackbird -- can, if sailing directly downwind, go faster than the wind propelling it. "For some folks, the idea that it can advance directly into the wind at all has been counter-intuitive . Americas Cup AC72 True Vs Apparent Wind - Upwind. are all single hull, soft sailed boats capable of far exceeding windspeed going downwind at angles. Jenkins, like other Dirt Cup veterans . Here is why: 1) If a power Pshaft is taken from the axle of the wheels travelling at a speed Vgnd relative to the ground, this produces a rolling drag such that Pshaft = D . The propeller simply takes a little power from the wheels (at low force and high velocity) to push the veicle a bit faster than the wind (at higher force and lower velocity). A UCLA professor bet $10,000 that the video was wrong, saying it broke the laws of physics . Quote. This is a result of the apparent wind velocity (the velocity measured on the boat) increasing as the boat accelerates into the wind. Likes Motore. You guys are starting to restore my faith in humanity. Thingiverse is a universe of things. (PhysOrg.com) -- A wind-powered car has been clocked in the US traveling down wind faster than the wind. This time the team traveled 2.01 times faster than the wind speed when headed upwind. Dead downwind faster than the wind sounds impossible to me but some disagree vehemently, just downwind is another matter as tacking (rather gybing I suppose)allows use of relative wind and thus perhaps - just perhaps, the possibility of beating the wind to the end of the run. Background The Blackbird is a land car that is able to go directly downwind faster than the wind. Downwind Faster Than the Wind Cart: This instructable will take you through the construction of a working model of the wind powered cart that answers the question that sparked so much controversy across dozens of internet forums. Actually, they do go faster than the wind downwind looking only at the speed in the direction of the wind; i.e., when the yacht travels NE with the wind going N, the yacht's speed component in . sailing dow nwind faster than the wind, the wind is. There have been many "Down Wind Faster Than The Wind (DWFTTW)" arguments based on energy flow. The carts analyzed on this page have a PROPELLER on top, which PUSHES against the air, like a FAN, even when the vehicle is moving at the same speed as the air. On July 2, 2010 on El Mirage Dry Lake, Blackbird sailed directly down wind at a speed of 27.7 mph in a 10 […] The author is not your average academic or physicist. High-performance sailboats absolutely do sail faster than the wind when sailing upwind or on a reach. Blackbird wind cart. The yacht achieved a dead downwind speed of about 2.8 times the speed of the wind, sponsored by Google.". Running Faster than the Wind. Downwind Faster Than the Wind Cart: This instructable will take you through the construction of a working model of the wind powered cart that answers the question that sparked so much controversy across dozens of internet forums.  It resulted in tens of thousands of posts of… The first 20. m.youtube.com. I say theoretically because I haven't done it yet. A UCLA Physics Professor bet me $10,000 that my video about going downwind faster than the wind was wrong. A car moving into a wind is equivalent to a car moving with the wind, but faster than the wind. On July 2, 2010, the Blackbird land yacht set the world's first certified record for going directly downwind, faster than the wind, using only power from the available wind during its run. The implication of this is that the fastest way to get to a leeward mark is to "tack downwind." Over a year ago on Boing Boing, I linked to this video from a guy who made a propeller-powered vehicle that he . The fastest angle of sail will be a function of windspeed. Downwind, when the vehicle is traveling faster than the windspeed, the ground is the fastest-moving medium relative to the vehicle, so the wheels harvest the power and impart it to the rotor, which propels the vehicle. However, high performance wind powered vehicles can "beat the w. It seems quite achievable for Your concept to go downwind more than 2 times the wind speed, turn around and return dead upwind faster than the wind speed with the same vehicle! Wind-powered vehicle moving directly downwind faster than wind? Heck most people don't know how sails work *period*. Figure 2: Sailing Downwind, Faster than the Wind However, as it drifts, a great deal of fluid is flowing through the turbine. A displacement vessel with sails set 'wing & wing', and / or using a spinnaker can sail dead down wind up to ex. By Dog, December 6, 2004 in Sailing Anarchy. IIRC, the wheels drive the propeller, FFS. Recently, Derek Muller of Veritasium decided to make a video about it. They cannot go downwind faster than the wind. Physics Veritasium recently released a video about a wind-powered land vehicle that is capable of moving directly downwind faster than the speed of wind. Yeah. Head Honcho; First Class Member; 3,426 posts; Aircraft: Morgan Sierra 100 C172 PA28 Location: Corindi Beach Many years ago I posted a little brain teaser I came up with here on RunRyder. Photo: Steve Morris. 'Downwind faster than the wind' is a ground breaking and intriguing book by Nicholas Landell-Mills, an independent researcher in applied physics, which explores the theory of sailing in a new and perhaps controversial way that breaks with established models. Dead downwind, the sails just catch wind. The difficulty is that most people don't know why a boat can sail downwind faster than the wind. Given these formulas, there was no other solution than to come up with about 19 degrees of apparent wind heading downwind and 16 degrees apparent wind heading upwind. Note that I did post a vector analysis, and it appears earlier in that thread. As some may recall, it got way out of hand, so a buddy and I built this downwind vehicle and set two world records with it. kgwilson. Ice boats and high performance sailboats can make a steady state downwind course with downwind VMG faster than the wind. 297 8. It seems to me that the possibility of this faster-than-wind machine is easily explained, without the need for a wind gradient or a momentary lull. Thanks to the phenomenon of apparent wind, modern boats regularly sail faster than the true wind speed on a reach. This is a response to @Veritasium 's recent video: Risking My Life To Settle A Physics Debatehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyQwgBAaBag&t=376sI show all t. Sailing higher increases boatspeed enough to overcome the extra distance sailed. There's no question about that. This is not the preserve of multihulls or hydrofoils only. It's well known that racing boats can travel faster than the wind when traveling to windward. Figure 2: Sailing Downwind, Faster than the Wind However, as it drifts, a great deal of fluid is flowing through the turbine. When going downwind faster than the wind, the rotor speeds up the air relative to the cart, which implies slowing down the air relative to the ground. Dead-Downwind Faster Than The Wind (DDWFTTW) Analysis Mark Drela 1 Jan 09 Nomenclature V boat speed W wind speed Ft drag force on water turbine Fp thrust force on air prop Pt shaft power of water turbine Pp shaft power of air prop Ap air-prop disk area (= πR2 p) ρ air density ηt water turbine efficiency ηg gearing/transmission efficiency ηp air prop total efficiency A popular YouTuber filmed himself driving a wind-powered vehicle downwind faster than the wind itself. A traditional sailboat clearly can not go directly downwind faster than the wind for the reasons you stated. On July 2, 2010, Blackbird set the world's first certified record for going directly downwind, faster than the wind, using only power from the available wind during its run. Posted October 17. kgwilson. Many boats sailing downwind will deploy a spinnaker, as it has a lot more sail area and moves the boat along much faster. UCLA Physics professor Alex Kusenko saw YouTuber Veritasium's video of him riding in a wind-powered vehicle moving directly downwind faster than the wind and told Veritasium that "directly . Watch at YouTube. Rick Cavallaro and his friends have built a wind-powered vehicle that travels downwind faster than the wind, solving a riddle that can start fights. It works just like the boats that tack downwind with downwind VMG greater than windspeed. The video posted on Youtube indicates that it did in fact travel directly downwind faster than the wind. There have been wind assisted container ships with vertical axis sails that would go downwind faster than the wind at times. The Blackbird record vehicle used no stored energy for propulsion (rules for sailcraft records) so there is nothing that limits the length of the DDWFTTW run. Reply. . There does not exist a definite upper limit for vehicles of this kind. It extracts wind energy by reducing the velocity difference between air & ground. A science YouTuber has won a five-figure bet from a physics professor after he proved a wind-powered car could move faster than the wind while driving downwind. Mark Frauenfelder 7:18 pm Mon Dec 1, 2008. The man, fast-talking inventor Rick Cavallaro, says his craft -- Blackbird -- can, if sailing directly downwind, go faster than the wind propelling it. Also, I have constructed a vector diagram and analyzed it as I have asked spork to do several times. All the best regards: Klaus (c:E. Top. Last month, a science Youtuber challenged a physics professor on a bet worth $10,000 to prove that a wind-powered car can cruise faster than the wind, which the professor said could break the laws . The manned downwind cart has made a successful run at the Land Sailing event at Ivanpah lakebed. So Muller proposed a $10,000 wager . A strange-looking thing that sort of resembles a wind turbine on a go-cart. This is because a boat is not driven by the true wind, but by the apparent wind. In July 2009 I wrote a post about wind-powered vehicles that travel directly downwind faster than the wind, giving links to videos explaining why this surprising idea is in fact possible. Then I realised that I still didn't understand it. Going dead downwind, arguably the easiest angle of sail, is also the slowest. This is a SW CAD model of the mind-blowingly UN-intuitive solution he provided which I have modeled for your consideration. They CAN go upwind, though, which is kinda neat). I've now noticed that in July 2010 a fantastic team of enthusiasts fasterthanthewind.org indeed demonstrated a single-person wind-powered vehicle that goes more than twice as fast as the wind, directly downwind. This does mean that you're creating a sort of virtual surface moving backward relative to the cart, but at least the speed you are moving faster than the wind. This paper deals with energy conversion mechanism of a vehicle driven by wind. I had some trouble following Drela, even after setting all his efficiency coefficients to 1.0 in his Eq.(11). Downwind faster than the true wind. This drives the turbine a little bit, which in turn drives the propeller a little bit, so the craft moves downwind slightly faster than the wind. Last month, a science Youtuber challenged a physics professor on a bet worth $10,000 to prove that a wind-powered car can cruise faster than the wind, which the professor said could break the laws . All extreme high performance planing dinghies are faster tacking downwind at angles than going dead down wind. In a 13.5 mph wind, the Blackbird reached a 38.5 mph sustained speed as verified by NALSA (North American Land Sailing Association). The third directional option is called a beam reach. In almost all conditions, it's better to sail on a broad reach than a run. While sailors have been able to sail faster than the wind for hundreds of… Jenkins, like other Dirt Cup veterans . 28167d1231128492-ddwfttw-directly-downwind-faster-than-wind-ddw2.pdf. As long as efficiencies are improved, the velocities would also increase unasymptotically. Download files and build them with your 3D printer, laser cutter, or CNC. Then I imagined an identical boat directly opposed to the first one (page 40); the sails now form the blades of a propeller that is going directly downwind faster than the wind. Nev Link to post Share on other sites. A conceptual conundrum. With the increase in the demand of a clean energy and green environment contribution, design the propeller for this vehicle is the task. The fastest boats, and especially ice boats and land yachts, can even beat the wind downwind by sailing off the wind at an angle. But I really need skeptics, or at least curious minded folks, over there to get this thread over the hump so the Mythbusters decide it's worth doing a segment on. Downwind faster than the wind. Maximize VMG: The first element of your strategy should be to make sure you are sailing downwind as quickly as possible. This leads people to think you're providing a surface for the tailwind to push on - but it's really not the case. This has generated a new concept of sailing, called "apparent wind sailing", which entails a new skill set for its practitioners, including tacking on downwind points of sail. 49ers, I-14s, 12, 16 and 18 foot skiffs, 29ers etc. In the frame of Earth, the rotor accelerates the air since it is pushing from behind. A turbine can't work if there is no wind around it; A propeller can. This is in part of the wind powered vehicle to achieve going downwind faster than the wind. AC72 Americas Cup True vs Apparent Wind - Dowwind And here is is for the AC72 heading upwind. You'll have people think your downwind . But on a run, there s no getting around the fact that the faster you go, the less . The unusual wind-powered car hit a top speed. Sailboats do not sail faster than the wind when sailing dead downwind. It resulted in tens of thousands of posts of… Wikipedia has a page talking about it, but it doesn't explain exactly how it works.. Downwind faster than the wind, part 2. You might guess how much i´d like to live near Your place and contribute. Faster-than-the-wind sailing means that the apparent wind angle experienced on the moving craft is always ahead of the sail. 'In stronger winds, the loss of apparent wind speed is a much smaller portion of the total windspeed so the best progress downwind occurs at deeper angles. To summarise it in case you haven't seen the video yet, there is a cart with a propeller on it, and it's travelling. As it reaches the speed of the wind, the apparent wind goes to zero. This video is sponsored by Brilliant. If it is going faster than the wind, the apparent wind is a headwind. What you're doing is making certain that the propeller can take a bite . Yeah it's just not making sense in my brain. None of the foiling sailboats, regardless of how refined, will go directly downwind at or faster than the wind speed. Dead-Downwind Faster Than The Wind (DDWFTTW) Analysis (Jan 2009) -- https://ve42.co/Drela 2013 AAPT United States Physics Olympiad Semifinal Exam -- https://ve42.co/AAPT2013 Rick's treadmill footage -- https://ve42.co/Treadmill The design is a ground vehicle that exceeds the speed of the wind when it is powered by steady-state wind. This drives the turbine a little bit, which in turn drives the propeller a little bit, so the craft moves downwind slightly faster than the wind. In a recent run at New Jerusalem in Tracy, California, the car reached a top speed of more . Contents 1 History With the increase in the demand of a clean energy and green environment contribution, design the propeller for this vehicle is the task. This animation can help to make sense of the diagram above: Reply. One of its builders was able to go directly downwind 2.8 times faster than the wind speed in 2012, earning himself a record along the way. Dec 9, 2021 #17 AnssiH. described as being pulled backwards relative to the boat. Plenty of GPS data and experience to prove it. The vehicle also managed to go upwind at 51.4 mph when in . The trick, of course, is that neither propeller blade is going directly downwind, but tie them together and they form a propeller whose centre of mass is going directly . Answer (1 of 3): A wind powered vehicle going dead down wind can only go as fast as the wind. For example, if two boats have the same boat speed of 3. times the true wind (i.e. Answer (1 of 3): As mentioned elsewhere, some planing dinghies, catamarans, foils borne craft, 'windsurfers' etc can travel significantly faster than the true wind speed, but downwind. It is theoretically possible to build a wind driven vehicle that can go in the downwind direction faster than the free stream wind speed (using a propeller in the air). Recently a group set a record for sailing a wind-powered land vehicle directly down wind, and a speed faster than wind speed. If you think about it, you could take two tacks downwind, faster than the wind, to arrive at a destination directly downwind faster than the wind gets to that same destination.

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